What makes IF so popular... - Axe Software Forums

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Author Topic:   What makes IF so popular...

Tyrant posted 15-06-2001 04:23 GMT
I am a bit confused, or maybe I'm just different from the rest. I've been sampling a few winners and runner-ups from past IF contests. What I've found was that these games are, well, barely even games. They seem like interactive novels that focus on the "novel" portion rather than gameplay and fun factor. That may just be me as I'm not a novel reader, but more of a movie watcher and video game player. Are these "novel games" really what makes IF so popular? When I develop games, I actually make them more action-oriented involving the player, whether the player is firing guns at mutant creatures or flying laser-wielding aircrafts through space. If my taste is so different, should I simply avoid the contest all together? Of course, I'm still hooked on Quest, and will hopefully start finishing games for Alex to put on the site (Once I get my hands on the new QDK with Quest 3.0!).
I like to use Quest's MIDI and sound features to really pull the player into the atmosphere I am stressing to build. Without those two key features, I don't know if I'd still be developing text games...
But anyway, it's just something I was thinking about, and hopefully I receive some feedback from anybody who feels they have some opinion(s) on the subject. I hope I don't sound like I'm offending IF developers. You guys are brilliant, but it seems like the genre of text games right now is a bit slim.
MaDbRiT posted 15-06-2001 13:30 GMT
Hi Tyrant
Like you I've looked at a fair few of the I.F. Competition entries, and I agree that the trend for this competition is away from writing games and towards the more literary - writing a piece of fiction that the reader is allowed to interact with to a limited extent. Quite a few try to make a serious point or two and really do deserve the term 'interactive novel'.
I thing a definite gap is appearing in the text based computer entertainment world, between those works that are serious attempts to be 'novels' and those that are unashamedly games. I happen to enjoy both, but they are quite dissimilar and perhaps it is time to admit it.
I wonder if perhaps we should re-introduce the term 'Adventure Game' to distinguish the work that is first and foremost intended to be a fun game, leaving 'Interactive Fiction' as a label for that which is intended to be an immersive form of fiction writing.
Personally I don't see that any one of these is the senior or 'superior' genre. They are simply different and each can be excellent or dreadful in its own right. To compare this to the movie making world, I might watch 'Philadelphia', enjoy it for its moving qualities and artistic merit and give it 10/10. I might also watch 'Splash' - which is not great dramatic art but is hugely entertaining and give that 10/10 too. The point being that they are both great movies in their own genres and are equally excellent although they are in no way directly comparable.
Write what you like to play, you will not be alone in your preference. The I.F. Competition is probably NOT currently the place to enter a role playing game, but would you expect a cat, no matter how fine a specimen it was, to do well if entered in a pet show that (although it doesn't actually SAY so) is clearly biased towards caged birds?
Al
Alex posted 16-06-2001 14:05 GMT
It might be interesting, Tyrant, if you posted your question to rec.arts.int-fiction - see what people think.
Personally I find the term "Interactive Fiction" to be rather pretentious for the kind of thing I designed Quest to do. I much prefer the term "Adventure Game" which is why I try not to use the term "IF" too often.
MaDbRiT posted 17-06-2001 07:42 GMT
There was me, trying hard not to use the word 'pretentious' in my long reply - and Alex just comes right out and SAYS IT!
I agree, the I.F. Competition is just a bit too pretentious, but I'd not go on RAIF and say so were I you :-)
Al
passerby posted 17-06-2001 18:41 GMT
I know what you mean that the current crop of games are more fiction than game. I've been searching through IF on the web for a while now, and many reviewers and authors are saying the same thing.
about the Novel readers vs Movie Watchers - there's no real difference for our purpose, except maybe for subject matter. In both cases, the story is presented as a series of events in set order. Where an adventure game is different is that different paths can be taken to the end, and the player gets to drive the game instead of being led by it.
It doesn't matter if the subject of the game is finding the meaning of life or beating the mutants - good games do need to be both Interactive and Fiction. You need an overall story to the game, and you also need to give the player obstacles to overcome.
There's nothing wrong with adding Sound and Graphics to text games to help build atmosphere (unless you're a purist). You just shouldn't rely on them and nothing else - you still need good writing in the game.
And don't let anything stop you entering the competition. Games that are games alone still do well every year (but as MaDbRiT said, an RPG probably won't do well because really it is a different type of game).
Tyrant posted 18-06-2001 12:27 GMT
I agree with all your replies, and I have posted a message on that one board that Alex linked to.
I am currently working on an "Adventure/Action" game that pits you as a Samurai in ancient Japan. It's got a pretty good story, and should hold lots of depth to keep the player coming back to it. It's also got a few twists in the storyline just as every good novel usually has. I'm probably going to send this one to Alex, then work on either a sequel or a different game for the competition if I feel like it. Again, that's IF (no pun intended) I feel like doing a game for the competition as I might not have a whole lot of time to work on one good enough for it. If I do send this one to Alex, I cannot use it in the competition, but that's okay since I'm not putting A LOT of effort into the game...but it should be very fun nevertheless.
Passerby, I also agree with what you mentioned about graphics and sound driving a game. I understand that this is a text adventure, not a graphic adventure, therefore I only use sounds to set the atmosphere, and I rarely use graphics. I find myself a talented writer, though not nearly as good as the I-F writers I've been sampling. Anyway, I'll just stick to what I like to do, not what I should do. I hope to start getting more games up on this site as the Game Archive has been a bit dried up lately. Thanks for the feedback.
Alex posted 18-06-2001 12:36 GMT
The Games Archive is only a bit "dried up" lately due to my laziness, I mean, business with other things (exams and project stuff - degrees eat up a lot of time!). Now I'm almost done for the academic year I should be able to go through the backlog of games and reviews to add, and reply to those emails that have been sitting there for the last week or so.
proxy posted 05-09-2001 12:59 GMT
Hi. I'm a new member of the board, though I've been using Quest for a long time. You see, I started writing stories when I was 8 and have quite a few short stories to my name-but I've also written a handful of shockwave games for the net, and there's quite a lot of story in em.
I think that the Interactive Fiction term is a way of saying fauna for animals. Call it a bloody adventure game already. Think about it-EVERY GAME is interactive fiction. Doom is fiction, and interactive, right ? Yet only a loonie would call it an adventure game.
So, just do the right thing and say `I love adventure games.'
And just in case you are fuming in the face after reading this, I'm going to Cuba for a long vacation :->

Author	Topic: What makes IF so popular...
Tyrant	posted 15-06-2001 04:23 GMT I am a bit confused, or maybe I'm just different from the rest. I've been sampling a few winners and runner-ups from past IF contests. What I've found was that these games are, well, barely even games. They seem like interactive novels that focus on the "novel" portion rather than gameplay and fun factor. That may just be me as I'm not a novel reader, but more of a movie watcher and video game player. Are these "novel games" really what makes IF so popular? When I develop games, I actually make them more action-oriented involving the player, whether the player is firing guns at mutant creatures or flying laser-wielding aircrafts through space. If my taste is so different, should I simply avoid the contest all together? Of course, I'm still hooked on Quest, and will hopefully start finishing games for Alex to put on the site (Once I get my hands on the new QDK with Quest 3.0!). I like to use Quest's MIDI and sound features to really pull the player into the atmosphere I am stressing to build. Without those two key features, I don't know if I'd still be developing text games... But anyway, it's just something I was thinking about, and hopefully I receive some feedback from anybody who feels they have some opinion(s) on the subject. I hope I don't sound like I'm offending IF developers. You guys are brilliant, but it seems like the genre of text games right now is a bit slim.
MaDbRiT	posted 15-06-2001 13:30 GMT Hi Tyrant Like you I've looked at a fair few of the I.F. Competition entries, and I agree that the trend for this competition is away from writing games and towards the more literary - writing a piece of fiction that the reader is allowed to interact with to a limited extent. Quite a few try to make a serious point or two and really do deserve the term 'interactive novel'. I thing a definite gap is appearing in the text based computer entertainment world, between those works that are serious attempts to be 'novels' and those that are unashamedly games. I happen to enjoy both, but they are quite dissimilar and perhaps it is time to admit it. I wonder if perhaps we should re-introduce the term 'Adventure Game' to distinguish the work that is first and foremost intended to be a fun game, leaving 'Interactive Fiction' as a label for that which is intended to be an immersive form of fiction writing. Personally I don't see that any one of these is the senior or 'superior' genre. They are simply different and each can be excellent or dreadful in its own right. To compare this to the movie making world, I might watch 'Philadelphia', enjoy it for its moving qualities and artistic merit and give it 10/10. I might also watch 'Splash' - which is not great dramatic art but is hugely entertaining and give that 10/10 too. The point being that they are both great movies in their own genres and are equally excellent although they are in no way directly comparable. Write what you like to play, you will not be alone in your preference. The I.F. Competition is probably NOT currently the place to enter a role playing game, but would you expect a cat, no matter how fine a specimen it was, to do well if entered in a pet show that (although it doesn't actually SAY so) is clearly biased towards caged birds? Al
Alex	posted 16-06-2001 14:05 GMT It might be interesting, Tyrant, if you posted your question to rec.arts.int-fiction - see what people think. Personally I find the term "Interactive Fiction" to be rather pretentious for the kind of thing I designed Quest to do. I much prefer the term "Adventure Game" which is why I try not to use the term "IF" too often.
MaDbRiT	posted 17-06-2001 07:42 GMT There was me, trying hard not to use the word 'pretentious' in my long reply - and Alex just comes right out and SAYS IT! I agree, the I.F. Competition is just a bit too pretentious, but I'd not go on RAIF and say so were I you :-) Al
passerby	posted 17-06-2001 18:41 GMT I know what you mean that the current crop of games are more fiction than game. I've been searching through IF on the web for a while now, and many reviewers and authors are saying the same thing. about the Novel readers vs Movie Watchers - there's no real difference for our purpose, except maybe for subject matter. In both cases, the story is presented as a series of events in set order. Where an adventure game is different is that different paths can be taken to the end, and the player gets to drive the game instead of being led by it. It doesn't matter if the subject of the game is finding the meaning of life or beating the mutants - good games do need to be both Interactive and Fiction. You need an overall story to the game, and you also need to give the player obstacles to overcome. There's nothing wrong with adding Sound and Graphics to text games to help build atmosphere (unless you're a purist). You just shouldn't rely on them and nothing else - you still need good writing in the game. And don't let anything stop you entering the competition. Games that are games alone still do well every year (but as MaDbRiT said, an RPG probably won't do well because really it is a different type of game).
Tyrant	posted 18-06-2001 12:27 GMT I agree with all your replies, and I have posted a message on that one board that Alex linked to. I am currently working on an "Adventure/Action" game that pits you as a Samurai in ancient Japan. It's got a pretty good story, and should hold lots of depth to keep the player coming back to it. It's also got a few twists in the storyline just as every good novel usually has. I'm probably going to send this one to Alex, then work on either a sequel or a different game for the competition if I feel like it. Again, that's IF (no pun intended) I feel like doing a game for the competition as I might not have a whole lot of time to work on one good enough for it. If I do send this one to Alex, I cannot use it in the competition, but that's okay since I'm not putting A LOT of effort into the game...but it should be very fun nevertheless. Passerby, I also agree with what you mentioned about graphics and sound driving a game. I understand that this is a text adventure, not a graphic adventure, therefore I only use sounds to set the atmosphere, and I rarely use graphics. I find myself a talented writer, though not nearly as good as the I-F writers I've been sampling. Anyway, I'll just stick to what I like to do, not what I should do. I hope to start getting more games up on this site as the Game Archive has been a bit dried up lately. Thanks for the feedback.
Alex	posted 18-06-2001 12:36 GMT The Games Archive is only a bit "dried up" lately due to my laziness, I mean, business with other things (exams and project stuff - degrees eat up a lot of time!). Now I'm almost done for the academic year I should be able to go through the backlog of games and reviews to add, and reply to those emails that have been sitting there for the last week or so.
proxy	posted 05-09-2001 12:59 GMT Hi. I'm a new member of the board, though I've been using Quest for a long time. You see, I started writing stories when I was 8 and have quite a few short stories to my name-but I've also written a handful of shockwave games for the net, and there's quite a lot of story in em. I think that the Interactive Fiction term is a way of saying fauna for animals. Call it a bloody adventure game already. Think about it-EVERY GAME is interactive fiction. Doom is fiction, and interactive, right ? Yet only a loonie would call it an adventure game. So, just do the right thing and say `I love adventure games.' And just in case you are fuming in the face after reading this, I'm going to Cuba for a long vacation :->