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Author Topic:   Puzzles or story

DarkAng3l posted 09-09-2002 00:24 BST
I have a question to make: When you guys (and girls) are making a game, what do you give more attention: Puzzles or Story.
As you may have read in my review on "Green light", I prefer Story to Puzzles. It is my opinion, because I am fan of the term "Interactive Fiction" and I like telling/reading stories. How about you?
DarkAng3l
passerby posted 09-09-2002 21:27 BST
IN DEFENSE OF PUZZLES
Well, a good game has sort of a mix of both. No puzzles and it's a book, no story and it's a pinball machine.
The term INTERACTIVE fiction implies that you want both. Fiction as a story. Interaction can be in a few different types, but puzzles are best. At least when they are done well.
Puzzles have a bit of a bad name. Probably because they are the hardest part to do well. but done right they make the game.
A well designed puzzle should make you think hard when looking for a solution. A good example is one from Zork II where you have to kill a dragon to get past it. The dragon is too big to kill outright, and starts chasing you once you try, so you have to work out another way of killing it. Another is in "John's Fire Witch" where you have to defeat Satan to get past him. The way you do it is really clever, and logical. I won't say here so i don't give them away to anyone that might be playing them, but you can find them on the web.
The types of puzzles that aren't any good are ones that make you read the author's mind, or the no-brainers where you really only have to find the key to a door, or the right sword to kill the dragon. Obscure ones that are LOGICAL, so you can work them out are OK, and can be good, even when really hard.
So, i guess my position is an IF game is both, and the best games combine them so that the puzzles 'grow' out of the story.
The trend has been towards story, but i think that is only half the game(literally!)
Russell posted 10-09-2002 08:45 BST
I agree with passerby but I also tend to concentrate on "illustrating" a story(as opposed to "telling" it.)A good story is supposed to make it easy for you to suspend disbelief. So I think people should really make an effort to create good grammer, punctuation, and spelling. It irritates me to see those three things done badly. Conversely, I am apt to continue playing an interactive fiction if the author created lavish descriptions and has designed his software well.
daznewbie posted 10-09-2002 16:37 BST
I agree..i want the game to draw me in too, descriptions should be apt for the game your conjuring up.
Me im new to game development area..ive never found a decent adventure game maker..theres always something missing or not quite right..theres an adventure game maker..which looked nice..but looked like a dos window ehen you ran it.
im developing an interactive fiction game (or adventure to me) called Destiny.
i havent entirely worked out the plot yet..but im working out..you as a person have been brought to an alternate universe where the middle ages still holds true, dark magics are abundant..(fantasy i know). Its your job to solve a mystery..why are you there? and what brought you here.
im using bryce to render some beautiful (although still amateur.) graphics..
A waterfall, lost towers, castles, towers, dungeons, forests...etc..
something ive always dreamed of making but never had the software to do it..
im going to put up some graphics..on some webspace so you can see what im doing, id welcome any comments on them.. when i have got the webspace allocated.. as there (to me) great graphics..and my brain is creative enough to conjure a nice story but im still lacking one element im not sure what yet..!
but my basic supblot will be to restore "destiny" as it should be..
okay ive said tooo muchhhhh
but i enjoyed writing !
carlii posted 11-09-2002 06:31 BST
Puzzle definetly. Sure, story is nice but you can't beat good puzzles that make you think that's for sure! I'm becoming a bit more adventurous now that I've got some feedback on "Green Light" that I might make my next IF game more challening, puzzle-wise (But it will still have a kiss-ass story of corrs ;)).
Computer Whizz posted 11-09-2002 20:20 BST
Yeah, good puzzels are essencial...
They challenge you in the game and make it worthwhile - giving you a sense of achievement.
If you have none then there's no real point in playing the game since you'll always win, and you can get the same feeling from a book.
Logical puzzels good, puzzels from Silent Hill (if anyone's played it) are bad - they hold no logic and ask the player to guess what to do.
Computer Whizz

Author	Topic: Puzzles or story
DarkAng3l	posted 09-09-2002 00:24 BST I have a question to make: When you guys (and girls) are making a game, what do you give more attention: Puzzles or Story. As you may have read in my review on "Green light", I prefer Story to Puzzles. It is my opinion, because I am fan of the term "Interactive Fiction" and I like telling/reading stories. How about you? DarkAng3l
passerby	posted 09-09-2002 21:27 BST IN DEFENSE OF PUZZLES Well, a good game has sort of a mix of both. No puzzles and it's a book, no story and it's a pinball machine. The term INTERACTIVE fiction implies that you want both. Fiction as a story. Interaction can be in a few different types, but puzzles are best. At least when they are done well. Puzzles have a bit of a bad name. Probably because they are the hardest part to do well. but done right they make the game. A well designed puzzle should make you think hard when looking for a solution. A good example is one from Zork II where you have to kill a dragon to get past it. The dragon is too big to kill outright, and starts chasing you once you try, so you have to work out another way of killing it. Another is in "John's Fire Witch" where you have to defeat Satan to get past him. The way you do it is really clever, and logical. I won't say here so i don't give them away to anyone that might be playing them, but you can find them on the web. The types of puzzles that aren't any good are ones that make you read the author's mind, or the no-brainers where you really only have to find the key to a door, or the right sword to kill the dragon. Obscure ones that are LOGICAL, so you can work them out are OK, and can be good, even when really hard. So, i guess my position is an IF game is both, and the best games combine them so that the puzzles 'grow' out of the story. The trend has been towards story, but i think that is only half the game(literally!)
Russell	posted 10-09-2002 08:45 BST I agree with passerby but I also tend to concentrate on "illustrating" a story(as opposed to "telling" it.)A good story is supposed to make it easy for you to suspend disbelief. So I think people should really make an effort to create good grammer, punctuation, and spelling. It irritates me to see those three things done badly. Conversely, I am apt to continue playing an interactive fiction if the author created lavish descriptions and has designed his software well.
daznewbie	posted 10-09-2002 16:37 BST I agree..i want the game to draw me in too, descriptions should be apt for the game your conjuring up. Me im new to game development area..ive never found a decent adventure game maker..theres always something missing or not quite right..theres an adventure game maker..which looked nice..but looked like a dos window ehen you ran it. im developing an interactive fiction game (or adventure to me) called Destiny. i havent entirely worked out the plot yet..but im working out..you as a person have been brought to an alternate universe where the middle ages still holds true, dark magics are abundant..(fantasy i know). Its your job to solve a mystery..why are you there? and what brought you here. im using bryce to render some beautiful (although still amateur.) graphics.. A waterfall, lost towers, castles, towers, dungeons, forests...etc.. something ive always dreamed of making but never had the software to do it.. im going to put up some graphics..on some webspace so you can see what im doing, id welcome any comments on them.. when i have got the webspace allocated.. as there (to me) great graphics..and my brain is creative enough to conjure a nice story but im still lacking one element im not sure what yet..! but my basic supblot will be to restore "destiny" as it should be.. okay ive said tooo muchhhhh but i enjoyed writing !
carlii	posted 11-09-2002 06:31 BST Puzzle definetly. Sure, story is nice but you can't beat good puzzles that make you think that's for sure! I'm becoming a bit more adventurous now that I've got some feedback on "Green Light" that I might make my next IF game more challening, puzzle-wise (But it will still have a kiss-ass story of corrs ;)).
Computer Whizz	posted 11-09-2002 20:20 BST Yeah, good puzzels are essencial... They challenge you in the game and make it worthwhile - giving you a sense of achievement. If you have none then there's no real point in playing the game since you'll always win, and you can get the same feeling from a book. Logical puzzels good, puzzels from Silent Hill (if anyone's played it) are bad - they hold no logic and ask the player to guess what to do. Computer Whizz